In a speech to the conservative Federalist Society loftily titled “You Are the Last Line of Defense” Bari Weiss declares a clash of civilizations. “Of course that is what we must talk about tonight,” she starts. “The civilizational war we are in.” Substance is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
It occurred to me as I was reading this that this hysteria and fear is exactly what was fed to me in my Christian grade school and high school. Muslims are savages. The Ottoman Empire was completely barbaric. And then African countries are even lower on the scale of ignorance and savagery. This is the story the Evangelical right has been drilling into its children for decades.
This is a strawman article if there ever was one. Bari Weiss’ attacks were aimed at Hamas and its supporters, not at Arabs or Muslims. And the clash of civilizations she refers to is between the theocratic values and postmodernist epistemology versus secular Enlightenment values of individual rights and liberalism. The battle is against the stupid and reductivist "oppresor/oppressed" dichotomy bereft of any moral compass or universal values. The Left's response to Hamas' brutality exposed the horrific view that one's temporary status as "oppressed" seems to justify anything. Question the "oppressed" and the only answer you get is to shut up based not on your ideas, but on your identity and lack of "positionality."
. I have lived in India, China, Brazil and Mexico for many years, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the divide she refers to does not fall on the racial lines you say. Weiss does not even mention immigration. Did you even read her speech? The overwhelming majority of the nonwhite people I know here in LA through 3 interracial marriages are appalled at what Hamas did and are repelled by postmodernist values. The vast majority of nonwhite people living in the US are glad to be here, despite what elite "POC" activists say.
Stupid "progressive" positions on race and gender are Trump's best friend. Nonwhite membership in the awful GOP is skyrocketing. The Dems need to sober up and distance themselves from the Left fringe before it is too late.
As for the Federalist Society, I am no member as a lawyer, but I can tell you one thing--it would be a hell of a lot easier to live as a free gay person under Federalist Society leadership than under Hamas. Hamas makes the Federalist Society look positively humane. The problem with almost all decolonization movements since the 50s is that they produce far more oppressive regimes than the ones they replaced. I invite you to live under one of them. I suggest Zimbabwe, where my daughter recently worked. It's literally hell to live there.
I am a lifelong liberal Democrat and the Progressive Left has seriously lost its way in the last 12 years or so. And there are MANY people who think just like me.
I explicitly say that she doesn't talk about immigration. My point is in that using the frame of a clash of civilizations with America and the West vs. those who lack Enlightenment values (pro-Palestinian students (traitorous insiders! brainwashed with anti-Western ideas!) you are not just condemning Hamas. It's a dog-whistle, a call to tighten up ranks and borders against intruders, to purify institutions like higher education. The orientalist trope of the "barbaric Arab" has been around quite a long time, you don't have to explicitly use a slur for the message to land. Dehumanizing language like "invasion" and even "flood" to talk about refugees who come through the Southern border too easily conjurs "barbarians at the gate."
If we can see why "from the river to the sea" is not ideal language and avoid using it—even though it does not literally say wiping out Israel, we can extend the same intellectual flexibility to get to the logical conclusion of other tropes.
Enlightenment values are not just Western. They are universal because they apply to all individual humans. I lived for years in Delhi, India and in Ahmedabad Gujarat. My kids are half Indian and they grew up with many Indians whose respect and knowledge of Enlightenment values exceeds mine. Here in the US, you have Indian Americans like former Solicitor General Neal Katyal whose understanding of the values behind the US Constitution is second to none.
Why do you insist on racializing something (Enlightenment values) that by its terms knows no race?
Neither Bari Weiss nor I used any of the “dehumanizing” language you are referring to. That’s why your article is a straw man. It’s not wrong, just beside the point.
Of course they're not just in the West. We're arguing at different levels. I'm talking about her using symbolic tropes that are used to carve out who belongs in a place and who is a dangerous invader that will destroy the place with their un-enlightned values/barbarism.
You write as if you are utterly oblivious to the most basic undisputed facts. The United States in 2023 is currently the least xenophobic country in the modern history of the world by far. Brazil, perhaps, runs a VERY distant second.
The following excerpts are from Pew Research Center--not exactly right wing.
"The foreign-born population residing in the U.S. reached a record 44.8 million, or 13.7% of the U.S. population, in 2018. This immigrant population has more than quadrupled since the 1960s, when the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act took effect. Though growth has begun to slow in recent years, the number of immigrants living in the United States is projected to almost double by 2065."
"The regions of origin for immigrant populations residing in the U.S. have dramatically shifted since the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act. In 1960, 84% of immigrants living in the U.S. were born in Europe, Canada or other North American countries, while only 6% were from Mexico, 4% from Asia, 3% from the rest of Latin America and 3% from other areas. Immigrant origins now differ drastically, with European, Canadian and other North American immigrants making up only a small share of the foreign-born population (13%) in 2018. Asians (28%), Mexicans (25%) and other Latin Americans (25%) each make up about a quarter of the U.S. immigrant population, followed by 9% who were born in another region."
Look, I get that your intentions are good, and I respect that. The issue of refugees is a very hard one. But that is not what Bari Weiss is talking about. But I can note that the pressure to immigrate is almost perfectly positively correlated with target countries that embrace Enlightenment values. And 87% of current immigrants to the US are "people of color" to use a phrase I hate. What does that make my kids?
LOL shit my father in law a life long GOP Reagan Republican will not vote for trump or Biden like how out of touch are you? He is 72 from Nebraska and spent his whole life in finance. It’s always fun to see boomers yell at the clouds, no one cares about parties because we see how much BS they are...
You and your father-in-law may not care about political parties, but they affect you regardless of your indifference--our two political parties are how political power gets exercised whether you and your father-in-law like it or not, and no matter how BS they are. You might as well complain about the weather. Opting out is also a choice--- to let others decide for you.
I vote for Biden to keep Trump out. To be honest, I am having trouble making sense of your comment. What is your point and what does it have to do with my comment, the post by Tana Ganeva, or the Weiss speech?
Really it was bait, I just wanted to see how much you could push your right wing talking point. If Biden is the lesser of 2 evils? Please describe in any detail how Biden’s foreign, immigration, covid, economic, military policies are in anyway different or better than trump? He is currently funding a genocide. There is a joke amongst the left that shows the difference between Dems and GOP voters about the border wall it goes like this. What does a Dem say about the border wall? “We need it but don’t be a dick about it. Then the gop guys says, what the fuck are you talking about you dick head yes we need a boarder wall...
as far as the berry (nepo baby little hate machine) journalist, what is obvious to most but apparently not yourself is that refugee the overwhelming majority of them are not terrorists, they are fleeing terrorism/war/famine that is almost always created by US foreign policy. I am sorry but if you follow tana she has written versions of this article several times because even though people are talking about separate events or issues the right wing propagandists say the same thing to elicit the anti-Muslim, Latino, Palestinian, refugee BS. These same people leave out key detail about how Israel used/funded/supported Hamas to eradicate the PLO. Explain to me how a people who are prisoners in the own country, when everything coming in or going is monitored, tracked, inspected, how do they, 1 get funding and 2 get supplies, and why should prisoners be happy about being born in it? Tana is talking about the vast majority of people the ones not I n Hama, Israeli government, US government, military services, gangs, etc... what you are doing is screaming from the top of the hill about how badly you want a police state/open air prison for what reason exactly? It’s seems your really upset about what color of uniform the jailers wear.
Solid article. Never trust Bari Weiss when she tries to conjure up Samuel Huntington's long discredited thesis. It is just another lame attempt at polemics.
It occurred to me as I was reading this that this hysteria and fear is exactly what was fed to me in my Christian grade school and high school. Muslims are savages. The Ottoman Empire was completely barbaric. And then African countries are even lower on the scale of ignorance and savagery. This is the story the Evangelical right has been drilling into its children for decades.
Totally.
This is a strawman article if there ever was one. Bari Weiss’ attacks were aimed at Hamas and its supporters, not at Arabs or Muslims. And the clash of civilizations she refers to is between the theocratic values and postmodernist epistemology versus secular Enlightenment values of individual rights and liberalism. The battle is against the stupid and reductivist "oppresor/oppressed" dichotomy bereft of any moral compass or universal values. The Left's response to Hamas' brutality exposed the horrific view that one's temporary status as "oppressed" seems to justify anything. Question the "oppressed" and the only answer you get is to shut up based not on your ideas, but on your identity and lack of "positionality."
. I have lived in India, China, Brazil and Mexico for many years, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the divide she refers to does not fall on the racial lines you say. Weiss does not even mention immigration. Did you even read her speech? The overwhelming majority of the nonwhite people I know here in LA through 3 interracial marriages are appalled at what Hamas did and are repelled by postmodernist values. The vast majority of nonwhite people living in the US are glad to be here, despite what elite "POC" activists say.
Stupid "progressive" positions on race and gender are Trump's best friend. Nonwhite membership in the awful GOP is skyrocketing. The Dems need to sober up and distance themselves from the Left fringe before it is too late.
As for the Federalist Society, I am no member as a lawyer, but I can tell you one thing--it would be a hell of a lot easier to live as a free gay person under Federalist Society leadership than under Hamas. Hamas makes the Federalist Society look positively humane. The problem with almost all decolonization movements since the 50s is that they produce far more oppressive regimes than the ones they replaced. I invite you to live under one of them. I suggest Zimbabwe, where my daughter recently worked. It's literally hell to live there.
I am a lifelong liberal Democrat and the Progressive Left has seriously lost its way in the last 12 years or so. And there are MANY people who think just like me.
I explicitly say that she doesn't talk about immigration. My point is in that using the frame of a clash of civilizations with America and the West vs. those who lack Enlightenment values (pro-Palestinian students (traitorous insiders! brainwashed with anti-Western ideas!) you are not just condemning Hamas. It's a dog-whistle, a call to tighten up ranks and borders against intruders, to purify institutions like higher education. The orientalist trope of the "barbaric Arab" has been around quite a long time, you don't have to explicitly use a slur for the message to land. Dehumanizing language like "invasion" and even "flood" to talk about refugees who come through the Southern border too easily conjurs "barbarians at the gate."
If we can see why "from the river to the sea" is not ideal language and avoid using it—even though it does not literally say wiping out Israel, we can extend the same intellectual flexibility to get to the logical conclusion of other tropes.
Enlightenment values are not just Western. They are universal because they apply to all individual humans. I lived for years in Delhi, India and in Ahmedabad Gujarat. My kids are half Indian and they grew up with many Indians whose respect and knowledge of Enlightenment values exceeds mine. Here in the US, you have Indian Americans like former Solicitor General Neal Katyal whose understanding of the values behind the US Constitution is second to none.
Why do you insist on racializing something (Enlightenment values) that by its terms knows no race?
Neither Bari Weiss nor I used any of the “dehumanizing” language you are referring to. That’s why your article is a straw man. It’s not wrong, just beside the point.
Of course they're not just in the West. We're arguing at different levels. I'm talking about her using symbolic tropes that are used to carve out who belongs in a place and who is a dangerous invader that will destroy the place with their un-enlightned values/barbarism.
.
You write as if you are utterly oblivious to the most basic undisputed facts. The United States in 2023 is currently the least xenophobic country in the modern history of the world by far. Brazil, perhaps, runs a VERY distant second.
The following excerpts are from Pew Research Center--not exactly right wing.
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/
"The foreign-born population residing in the U.S. reached a record 44.8 million, or 13.7% of the U.S. population, in 2018. This immigrant population has more than quadrupled since the 1960s, when the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act took effect. Though growth has begun to slow in recent years, the number of immigrants living in the United States is projected to almost double by 2065."
"The regions of origin for immigrant populations residing in the U.S. have dramatically shifted since the passage of the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act. In 1960, 84% of immigrants living in the U.S. were born in Europe, Canada or other North American countries, while only 6% were from Mexico, 4% from Asia, 3% from the rest of Latin America and 3% from other areas. Immigrant origins now differ drastically, with European, Canadian and other North American immigrants making up only a small share of the foreign-born population (13%) in 2018. Asians (28%), Mexicans (25%) and other Latin Americans (25%) each make up about a quarter of the U.S. immigrant population, followed by 9% who were born in another region."
Look, I get that your intentions are good, and I respect that. The issue of refugees is a very hard one. But that is not what Bari Weiss is talking about. But I can note that the pressure to immigrate is almost perfectly positively correlated with target countries that embrace Enlightenment values. And 87% of current immigrants to the US are "people of color" to use a phrase I hate. What does that make my kids?
LOL shit my father in law a life long GOP Reagan Republican will not vote for trump or Biden like how out of touch are you? He is 72 from Nebraska and spent his whole life in finance. It’s always fun to see boomers yell at the clouds, no one cares about parties because we see how much BS they are...
You and your father-in-law may not care about political parties, but they affect you regardless of your indifference--our two political parties are how political power gets exercised whether you and your father-in-law like it or not, and no matter how BS they are. You might as well complain about the weather. Opting out is also a choice--- to let others decide for you.
I vote for Biden to keep Trump out. To be honest, I am having trouble making sense of your comment. What is your point and what does it have to do with my comment, the post by Tana Ganeva, or the Weiss speech?
Really it was bait, I just wanted to see how much you could push your right wing talking point. If Biden is the lesser of 2 evils? Please describe in any detail how Biden’s foreign, immigration, covid, economic, military policies are in anyway different or better than trump? He is currently funding a genocide. There is a joke amongst the left that shows the difference between Dems and GOP voters about the border wall it goes like this. What does a Dem say about the border wall? “We need it but don’t be a dick about it. Then the gop guys says, what the fuck are you talking about you dick head yes we need a boarder wall...
as far as the berry (nepo baby little hate machine) journalist, what is obvious to most but apparently not yourself is that refugee the overwhelming majority of them are not terrorists, they are fleeing terrorism/war/famine that is almost always created by US foreign policy. I am sorry but if you follow tana she has written versions of this article several times because even though people are talking about separate events or issues the right wing propagandists say the same thing to elicit the anti-Muslim, Latino, Palestinian, refugee BS. These same people leave out key detail about how Israel used/funded/supported Hamas to eradicate the PLO. Explain to me how a people who are prisoners in the own country, when everything coming in or going is monitored, tracked, inspected, how do they, 1 get funding and 2 get supplies, and why should prisoners be happy about being born in it? Tana is talking about the vast majority of people the ones not I n Hama, Israeli government, US government, military services, gangs, etc... what you are doing is screaming from the top of the hill about how badly you want a police state/open air prison for what reason exactly? It’s seems your really upset about what color of uniform the jailers wear.
Solid article. Never trust Bari Weiss when she tries to conjure up Samuel Huntington's long discredited thesis. It is just another lame attempt at polemics.
WHY ARE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR FUCKING MINDS??!!